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ebay is not bidding incrementally and I am outbidding mysel

 
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slappymack
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:16 pm    Post subject: ebay is not bidding incrementally and I am outbidding mysel Reply with quote

I placed my bid using Gixen.
The item was at $425.00
My bid, the very next bid, was placed at $529.91, which coincidentally was my max bid. This should have been $435.00.
There was no incremental bidding on ebay's / my behalf. The bid increment at this price range should be $10.00.

item # 204366859202

In some more bizarre behavior, I bid twice, outbidding myself.
Item was at $501. My bid came in at $511. A second later, I bid again to $519.91 (my max). I was then outbid 5 seconds later $529.91.

Item # 285324250487
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 7599
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would be most useful for you to first read this blog:

https://www.gixen.com/blog/how-does-ebay-bidding-work/

On item 204366859202 your bid of US $529.91 was outbid by one that was placed 5 seconds earlier, see here:

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/204366859202

We will never know how much that bid was, but since the bid increment is indeed $10.00 in that range, they only have to pay that much more than your losing bid.

On item 285324250487 your bid of $519.91 was outbid by a snipe placed 6 seconds after yours,

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/285324250487

That's why you will have seen the auction page update that way as the bids were placed. Once again they only have to pay $10 more than your losing bid.

This is all perfectly normal and as expected, your snipe amounts were not sufficient to outbid what other buyers had already decided they were willing to pay by scheduling and/or manually placing higher bids in the last few seconds of the auction. On Ebay the highest accepted bid always wins the auction.
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slappymack
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:04 pm    Post subject: need a little more help Reply with quote

Cupid wrote:

On item 204366859202 your bid of US $529.91 was outbid by one that was placed 5 seconds earlier, see here:


Thank you for the reply! I read the link(s) provided prior to posting. However, I must be dim because I don't understand how to interpret this bid history. The top bid is the last /winning bid.

winning user bids $539.91 at 17 Jun 2023 at 7:59:52am PDT
I bid $529.91 at 17 Jun 2023 at 7:59:57am PDT
winning user bids $539.91 at 17 Jun 2023 at 7:59:52am PDT
I bid $529.91 at 17 Jun 2023 at 7:59:57am PDT
winning user bids $425.00 at 17 Jun 2023 at 7:59:52am PDT
unknown user bids $420.00 at 17 Jun 2023 at 1:21:24am PDT

Where is the incremental bidding? The price jumped from $425 to $529.91.
Why does it show that I bid twice at the exact same time?
How can the winner bid 3 times at the exact same time? Or, perhaps, why are there 3 entries for the winner at the exact same time?

Thank you for your assistance!
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 7599
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7:59:52am is 5 seconds before 7:59:57am.

So actually the auction price jumped from $425 to $539.91 when your bid was placed. Yours was the last bid of the auction and it resulted in the winner having to pay $114.91 more for the item than they would have had to pay had your bid not been placed by Gixen.

Ebay doesn't display bids in time order they are displayed in bid amount order. Often later bids are higher but that's just because the price rises as bids are placed, so you need to learn to look at the times of the bids not just the amounts.

I think you may also be getting yourself confused by selecting the 'Show automatic bids' toggle. All that does is additionally show you the prices that were displayed by the Ebay site as current auction prices in between bids being placed, those extra phantom 'bids' were never actually amounts that were submitted as bids to Ebay, as I say they were just temporary auction values.

Select the 'Hide automatic bids' toggle and then you'll only see the actual bids that were placed.

You placed two bids in the same second because you have a mirror subscription and used the same offset for both servers, that's quite normal, the winning bidder only ever placed one bid (of an unknown amount, but at least one bid increment more than yours), 5 seconds before yours was placed.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:35 pm    Post subject:

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slappymack
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cupid wrote:
So actually the auction price jumped from $425 to $539.91 when your bid was placed.


Why? Isn't it supposed to go up in increments of $10?

Cupid wrote:
Yours was the last bid of the auction


If mine was the last bid, I would have won, right? There wouldn't have been enough time for a $10 incremental bid to beat me.

Cupid wrote:
Ebay doesn't display bids in time order; they are displayed in bid amount order.


Thank you! I find that a very odd way to display bids. They should be listed by time because there is a correlating time with every bid. Oh well.


Cupid wrote:
I think you may also be getting yourself confused by selecting the 'Show automatic bids' toggle. All that does is additionally show you the prices that were displayed by the Ebay site as current auction prices in between bids being placed, those extra phantom 'bids' were never actually amounts that were submitted as bids to Ebay, as I say they were just temporary auction values.


Ah. Thank you! Automatic bids / phantom bids were throwing me off for sure. When I read the guides there was no mention of phantom bids or a description of such a thing.


Cupid wrote:
You placed two bids in the same second because you have a mirror subscription and used the same offset for both servers, that's quite normal,


Thank you very much for the explanations and your time! If the guide mentioned I would see two bids due to a mirror subscription, I missed it.
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 7599
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slappymack wrote:
Cupid wrote:
So actually the auction price jumped from $425 to $539.91 when your bid was placed.


Why? Isn't it supposed to go up in increments of $10?


I don't know where that idea comes from... bid increments are used to dictate what minimum bid is allowable in any given range and the maximum amount that a bidder has to pay above the next highest bid when they win. There's nothing anywhere that states that bidding has to be incremental, and it generally isn't.

When you place a bid, if there's already a higher one Ebay just lets you know that and increases the auction price to your bid plus, at most, one bid increment.

That's it, you don't have to place bids for all the values between the current auction price and what you are prepared to pay... that only happens in an actual auction house, not in purely online auctions like on Ebay.

slappymack wrote:
Cupid wrote:
Yours was the last bid of the auction


If mine was the last bid, I would have won, right? There wouldn't have been enough time for a $10 incremental bid to beat me.


No, as I said in a previous post on this thread:
Cupid wrote:
On Ebay the highest accepted bid always wins the auction.


The auction price rises as more bids are placed but if an earlier bid is still higher then that remains the winning bid, the auction price is just higher and that price is closer to the actual amount of that winning bid. You are confusing auction price with bid amount, these are very different things and, in general, actioned at completely different times.

slappymack wrote:
Cupid wrote:
Ebay doesn't display bids in time order; they are displayed in bid amount order.


Thank you! I find that a very odd way to display bids. They should be listed by time because there is a correlating time with every bid. Oh well.


If you think about it it's the only sensible way to display bids, you wouldn't want winning bids placed early in the auction to be displayed near the bottom of the list, would you ? The time that an auction price comes into affect is dictated by the time that the bid was placed which it outbid, not by the time that the bid itself was placed.

slappymack wrote:
Cupid wrote:
I think you may also be getting yourself confused by selecting the 'Show automatic bids' toggle. All that does is additionally show you the prices that were displayed by the Ebay site as current auction prices in between bids being placed, those extra phantom 'bids' were never actually amounts that were submitted as bids to Ebay, as I say they were just temporary auction prices.


Ah. Thank you! Automatic bids / phantom bids were throwing me off for sure. When I read the guides there was no mention of phantom bids or a description of such a thing.


It's a curve ball thrown in by Ebay in recent years, because they believe it helps to explain the bidding process better for it's users. However in actual fact it only helps those that already understood it without such contrivances as displaying bid amounts that were never actually entered as such as competing bids on the Ebay site.

slappymack wrote:
Cupid wrote:
You placed two bids in the same second because you have a mirror subscription and used the same offset for both servers, that's quite normal,


Thank you very much for the explanations and your time! If the guide mentioned I would see two bids due to a mirror subscription, I missed it.


On the Main page, in two different locations:
Gixen wrote:
Your snipes are sent twice, from two different hosting locations.

&
Gixen wrote:
Two different servers located at different locations in the United States send your snipes at the same time.


That means sometimes you're going to see both bids, when both get accepted by Ebay.
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Last edited by Cupid on Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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slappymack
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Cupid"]
slappymack wrote:
Cupid wrote:
So actually the auction price jumped from $425 to $539.91 when your bid was placed.


Why? Isn't it supposed to go up in increments of $10?

Cupid wrote:

I don't know where that idea comes from...


Incremental bidding has been in place since ebay opened. The bid increment value is based on a price range, listed on ebays site. For this price range the bid increment value is $10. For some reason ebay via Gixen, submitted my maximum bid amount, which is a big problem.

ebay explains incremental bidding here.

"To set up automatic bidding on an auction listing, enter the maximum amount you’d like to pay for the item and select Place bid. We’ll bid in increments on your behalf to keep you in the lead but only up to your limit."

I don't know why but gixen is flagging my ebay url.

ebay.com/help/buying/bidding/automatic-bidding?id=4014



Cupid wrote:

If you think about it it's the only sensible way to display bids, you wouldn't want winning bids placed early in the auction to be displayed near the bottom of the list, would you?


I think we agree here and perhaps are discussing different points. I feel the highest bid / winner should always be at the top.

I really appreciate your time. You have helped me understand quite a bit. Thank you very much!
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 7599
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Ebay has used increments, that's why the winner of the auctions only has to pay at most one bid increment more than your bids.

All of this is explained in the blog that I gave you the URL to in my first response:

https://www.gixen.com/blog/how-does-ebay-bidding-work/

and that you said you'd already read.

There are also references, at the end, to other blog posts that I think it would be useful for you to read in order to help to expand your knowledge, even further, of the Gixen service and how Ebay works.

In both instances that you quoted the whole system, both Gixen and Ebay, worked exactly as intended and expected and as detailed on both the Ebay and Gixen sites. You did not win either of them because Ebay also accepted bids from other users that were higher than yours, either before or after your bid was successfully placed by Gixen.
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slappymack
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me ask you this - are you saying that my bid should not have been $435 but that $529.19 was correct?
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slappymack
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a mistake on the bid increment amount

From $250-$499.99, the bid increment is $5, not $10 as I had stated.

So my bid should have been $430. I wonder if this is an ebay or Gixen issue.
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slappymack
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cupid wrote:
slappymack wrote:
Cupid wrote:
So actually the auction price jumped from $425 to $539.91 when your bid was placed.


Why? Isn't it supposed to go up in increments of $5 in this range?


I don't know where that idea comes from... There's nothing anywhere that states that bidding has to be incremental, and it generally isn't..


Ebay makes it clear that bidding is incremental. It gives the increments for a particular value range on its website. gixen flags the entire url, so I will post a partial.

ebay.com/help/buying/bidding/automatic-bidding?id=4014

I contacted ebay and they concurred that something was wrong. They opened two tickets to find out what happened with these particular auctions.

Cupid wrote:
In both instances that you quoted the whole system, both Gixen and Ebay, worked exactly as intended and expected and as detailed on both the Ebay and Gixen sites.


That is incorrect. Ebay did not work as intended. The bid increment was not $5 and it should have been.

Cupid wrote:
You did not win either of them because Ebay also accepted bids from other users that were higher than yours


I am unconcerned about losing the auctions and don't have questions related to how an auction is won. The concern, as stated in my OP, was the lack of incremental bidding and then in the other auction, how I bid and then outbid myself.

The issues stated in my OP have never happened to me before. I've used snipe software and I have done bidding on ebay directly. These issues have only occurred while using Gixen. To be fair, this could merely be correlation and not causation.

We'll see what ebay says and I'll report the findings.
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 7599
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slappymack wrote:
are you saying that my bid should not have been $435 but that $529.19 was correct?


Yes, of course I am, (except that it was $529.91), and that's exactly what Ebay tell you to do (and you even quoted) in order to take advantage of their automated bidding system. This is absolutely fundamental to your understanding of how Gixen and Ebay works, and, to be honest, I'm somewhat surprised you have failed to grasp it thus far.

I think you've also failed to grasp/understand what I wrote earlier:

Cupid wrote:
The time that an auction price comes into affect is dictated by the time that the bid was placed which it outbid, not by the time that the bid itself was placed.


slappymack wrote:
I contacted ebay and they concurred that something was wrong...We'll see what ebay says and I'll report the findings


They were just trying to get you off the line, or you spoke to a particularly clueless Ebay representative.

None the less, good luck with getting a response that you are prepared to accept.

I think I'm done now, I've explained it all as best I can.

Please also feel free to provide Ebay with a link to this thread, if you'd like them to also confirm that you've been told the complete and absolute truth here.
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