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Contingency Groups

 
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MusicalMan



Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Hee Haw Hell, Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Contingency Groups Reply with quote

This is probably a stupid question but I just want to make sure. In settings, for contingency groups, it says:

Contingency bidding is the opposite of normal group bids. Unlike group bidding, with contingency bidding the remaining snipes in a group are canceled when you LOSE your first item.

This states when you lose your FIRST item, but if there are three or more items in the group, if you WIN the first item, but then LOSE the second item, that would still cancel all subsequent snipes, correct?

Thanks!
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mario
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct. You are still stuck with the first one that you won though, you can't undo that.
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MusicalMan



Joined: 04 Apr 2010
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Location: Hee Haw Hell, Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. My problem is I want ALL the subsequent ones, but only if I win the FIRST one. I can't figure out how to do that---manually I suppose.

I also love it with both types of groups (regular & contingency) when the seller lists the items in the 'wrong' order! Razz
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mario
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately there are no groups that do that. What I would do would probably depend on timing of the auctions. The first two items you are fine either way, so I would add these to a contingency group.

As for the subsequent ones, I would use notifications, and after seeing the status of the first auction, set up individual snipes (if first one won).
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject:

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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still maintain that this is the way contingency groups should work... I have never seen anyone provide an argument that supports the present operation.
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mario
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may be right Mark, but that someone may show up angry if I change things now. It's probably a mistake I initially made, and now have to deal with it. I can't discontinue contingency groups as they are now, but I may implement another type of group (not sure how to even name it) that would do this.
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Cupid



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Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having thought about it for a while the best that I can come up with is 'Inclusive Group' since the function is to include all items in the Group if the first is won. I guess there is an argumant that the current normal group could be renamed 'Exclusive Group' since the function is to exclude all subsequent items after one of them has been won.
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mario
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually "Inclusive group" sounds pretty good. Users would still need an explanation, but it sounds good. Not sure when I'll have the time to implement them... They will be, in fact, more difficult to implement than either normal or contingency groups.
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Cupid



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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see the function for an 'Inclusive Group' being that when one exists and an item is lost it cancels the rest of the snipes in that 'Inclusive Group' as it presently does when an item is won in a normal Group. When it finds an item in an 'Inclusive Group' and that item is won it removes the grouping completely on the rest of the snipes in that 'Inclusive Group' so it does not do any different processing of the snipes from then on.
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Last edited by Cupid on Sat May 21, 2011 5:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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mario
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct, that's exactly how it should be implemented.
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hmm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Contingency Groups and "Inclusive" Groups Reply with quote

I realize I'm way late to do the OP any good on the items he had in mind, but here are my thoughts:

1. "Contingency groups" as I understand it, means a best attempt at "all or nothing". The current implementation (as described above) makes good sense to me.

2. "Contingency groups" is a fair name for the feature, and I think it makes more sense this way, vs. what the Cupid suggested.

3. "Inclusive groups" seems like a reasonable name for the proposed feature.

4. Is it already possible with the current implementation to do an "inclusive group"*, by creating multiple contingency groups? Say all groups would include the same first item, at [the same or different?] snipe bids. Then, only one of the contingency groups would execute the winning snipe, but all would detect(?) whether that first item was won or lost, and so each contingency group would then bid / not bid on their respective second items accordingly.


* "Inclusive group" meaning bid on all others if the first is won; don't if it's lost. No decisions are made based on the outcome of items 2 or later.
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Cupid



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately 4 is not possible with Gixen at the moment because you are not allowed to add an item to more than one group.
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Peter
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: contingency group cancels bids after losing SECOND item Reply with quote

Hi Mario,

I have the same problem with contingency groups as described in the first post of this topic.

I had assumed that within a contingency group, if you LOSE the FIRST item all subsequent items will be canceled, but if you WIN the first item, all subsequent bids will be executed as scheduled.

However now I happened to experience a situation were I won the first item in a 5-item contingency group, but lost the second, and all remaining items were canceled, which was not what I expected. I had expected all other bids to be executed.

From your postings I understand that this behaviour is not an error, but that it has actually been designed this way.

I would be very happy if you could introduce a new kind of contingency group that does exactly what I need: cancel the remaining items of a group ONLY if the FIRST item is not won.

(This would be useful when bidding on multiple items from a single seller: once you have won one item, it often makes sense to bid on other items as well because you will save on shipping cost.)

Thanks, Peter
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mario
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, this has already been proposed, but I just don't see enough interest to pursue it. Very few users use or need this feature.
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Cupid



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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think more people would use it if the function was useful to them... I rejected ever using it once I realised that it did not provide a feature that was useful to me, due to the way that it is implemented... I may not be alone in that.
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mario
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well let me see what I can do... I will find some time to implement this new group, hopefully. What did we say in the past the best name for this new group type would be?
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Cupid



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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we agreed the exact function, how it would be implemented, and the name 'Inclusive Group' earlier in this thread.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst this is an old discussion I just wanted to pitch in that the way I need this to work is the way it currently works, showing that different people have different needs, and I'm perfectly happy with the functionality as it is! Just because one or two people don't like the way it works doesn't mean that everyone shares the same view Wink
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Just because one or two people don't like the way it works doesn't mean that everyone shares the same view Wink


Absolutely, and the functionality that I would use, and others have described, was never implemented.

It would be useful to know what scenarios people do find it useful for and why they do currently use it, as we currently only have scenarios where it's not ideal described in this thread.
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